On 2010/7/21 Omar Campagne wrote: Hello, I can see your point, but do not like your proposal that much, we would like to see po4a more widely adopted by other distributions, so I am reluctant to request translations on debian-i18n. The truth is that i did not hear from Nicolas for some weeks but would like to prepare a new release anyway to fix bugs which prevent its use to translate some manual pages, so I looked at archives to see how Nicolas used to prepare new releases, and sent a mail similar to http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/po4a-devel/2009-March/001710.html Nicolas may have Bcc'ed translators, I do not know; maybe podebconf-report-po could be used to automate this call for translations. That would indeed be a very good idea, but requires some testing. I will let Nicolas decide about long term solutions, I am at the moment interested only by the very short term ;) Given the short notice period, it is very likely that I will propose another release in one month to include translation updates. Denis

On 2010/7/21 Omar Campagne wrote: [...] [...] I am sorry, but I cannot parse this paragraph. Do you volunteer to contact translators? If so, sure, do as you want, either by hand or via podebconf-report-po. I just made a quick test, and podebconf-report-po seems to work just fine, I can give details if you want. Denis

On 2010/7/21 Omar Campagne wrote: Great, thanks a lot for your help! Ok, I do not have access to po4a CVS from work, so I will explain with po4a-0.39. Since podebconf-report-po is used to send mails, you have to be very careful to not send unwanted mails, maybe the best option is to be disconnected when making first tests. I suggest you also to use the --postpone option until you are familiar with this tool, to not send unwanted mails. Here is a quick step-by-step tutorial, my comments start with ** $ podebconf-report-po --postpone=/tmp/test-po4a-bin --notdebconf --podir=po/bin --languageteam ** The --languageteam option sends mails to Last-Translator *and* Language-Team ** You decide whether to use this option or not. You should specify a deadline to help translators organize their work. This deadline is usually the date you are planning to make the next release (or the day before). Deadline? [+10days] +6days ** or Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:00 UTC, or any other date which lets you ** commit before 19:00 UTC, I will make the release around this time ** When you press enter, the following lines are printed: Using po4a.pot for the call for translation Outdated files: zh_CN.po nl.po id.po oc.po pt.po uz.po hr.po ru.po zh_HK.po ko.po bn.po uk.po ar.po de.po et.po af.po ca.po nb.po fr.po eu.po cs.po he.po ja.po pt_BR.po sv.po pl.po eo.po es.po kn.po vi.po it.po ku.po sl.po ** An editor is then launched, it may hide those lines. Its contents are: # Lines beginning with a number sign are comments, they are removed when # sending mails. If a line is composed of a # followed by a 'Name: Value' # pair, it is interpreted as a mail header field and is passed to your mail # transport agent. You can edit/add/remove those header fields. # # From: Nicolas FRANCOIS (Nekral) # Subject: po4a 0.39-1: Please update debconf PO translation for the package po4a ** Change these two fields to put your name and a more accurate subject ** when sending PO files about documentation. A better option is to ** to use the --from option to put your name and mail, or better yet create ** ~/.podebconf-report-po.conf to define 'from' as explained in the man page. # # This mail will be sent to the following people: # (you can update email addresses, or remove lines. Only email addresses # with the check box checked will receive the message). # # WARNING: Some email addresses seem to be invalid. # You should remove them and inform the translators separately. # ### [*] af.po: Theuns Smuts, AF ### [*] ar.po: EMAD AL-BLOUSHI, Arabic ### [*] bn.po: ??????????????? ?????????????????? ????????? (**mail dropped**), Bengali ### [*] ca.po: Jordi Vilalta Prat (**mail dropped**), CA ### [*] cs.po: Michal Simunek (**mail dropped**), Czech <debian-l10n-czech at lists.debian.org> ** I removed real mails to avoid spams. Here, the Last-Translator field of ** af.po and ar.po contain only names, not mails, so you can uncheck these files ** or remove those lines.; bn.po and ca.po contain invalid mails in Language-Team, you ** can remove everything after comma. After edition, those lines will look like ** ### [*] bn.po: ??????????????? ?????????????????? ????????? (**mail dropped**) ** ### [*] ca.po: Jordi Vilalta Prat (**mail dropped**) ** ### [*] cs.po: Michal Simunek (**mail dropped**), Czech <debian-l10n-czech at lists.debian.org> ** Of course, you will have to keep real mails. [snip other languages] Hi, You are noted as the last translator of the translation for po4a. The English template has been changed, and now some messages are marked "fuzzy" in your translation or are missing. I would be grateful if you could take the time and update it. Please send the updated file to me, or submit it as a wishlist bug against po4a. The deadline for receiving the updated translation is Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:00:07 +0000. Thanks in advance, ** You can make changes in this text if you want, and when you leave editor, ** you are prompted with this question: Ready to send the emails, are you sure? [y/N/e/?] e ** If you answer 'N', it aborts; 'e' gets you back to the editor, and 'y' send mails. ** If you added the --postpone option, mails are not sent but written into the specified mailbox. You can then launch mutt to have a look at this mailbox, for instance by running $ mutt -e 'set postponed=/tmp/test-po4a-bin' -p and send all mails, or you re-run podebconf-report-po without the --postpone option. When this is done, you commit PO files sent back to you into CVS. Please write in the log message who made the translations, I will use those log messages to update changelogs and credit translators. If you want to also call for updates on documentation, you should add the --gzip flag to compress PO files, or use the --sendmessage option (I did not test it) and modify mail body to give a link to cvsweb where translators can download their PO files. Denis

Le 21/07/2010 10:34, Omar Campagne a écrit : Hi, I'm currently updating the French translation of manual pages (which should be reviewed until this week-end and so could make it for the next release) and have spotted some style inaccuracies in the original documents (please find attached what I have done so far). If it is fine to correct these tiny (but numerous) style inaccuracies in the original documents, it should be better to perform some preventive unfuzzy *before* the call for translation. If the idea is accepted to correct these style inaccuracies, I volunteer to make the preventive unfuzzy needed (anyway, since I just discovered msguntypot(1), it might be easier than the methods currently described in developers-reference that I used to perform). Please let me know if it is fine for me to continue to correct this sorts of things (it could be ready in a few days, but may need some approval and so won't probably make it for the next release). If so, it would be better to prepare the call for translation after the PO files are regenerated. Cheers David

Just a quick note. po/bin/po4a.pot was regenerated in the sources (187 messages) but not the translators' files (185 messages). I guess that can go in the next release and call for translations along with the corrections pointed out in the two previous emails. Regards, -- Omar Campagne Polaino

Well, I already sent the call for po/bin translations (given the deadline, I thought the sooner the better). eo, cz and sv are already in the cvs repo. Once 0.41 is ready, things are corrected and strings updated, I can reissue the call for po/bin/ translations explaining to these mentioned or complete langs the minor changes done to the po files. I haven't done any calls for manpages translations, will do so for 0.41, which will pick up the changes aforementioned in other emails. Regards -- Omar Campagne Polaino

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Le 22/07/2010 16:16, Denis Barbier a écrit : [...] We also spotted (with Denis on IRC) that there are some mistakes in po4a-build.conf(5) (about how "KEEP" works), so I intend to correct them and ask for review on debian-l10n-english(a)l.d.o in order to correct my en_FR style and maybe more. I will send my proposal on this list first. Anyway, on debian-l10n-french(a)l.d.o, Denis advised me to ask for write access in the po4a project on Alioth, in order to commit at least the next French updates: my login is taffit-guest (I just asked for it via the web form). Cheers David

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Le 25/07/2010 18:41, Omar Campagne a écrit : Thanks a lot for the offer: I've quite finish to modify every style stuff the way I presented them earlier on this thread, and it appears to be a huge patch (~90KB already, at least the documentation is not yet translated in as much languages than the runtime strings)... I'm not quite sure of what will be the best way to proceed (in fact there is now way it could automatically be unfuzzied, except maybe for a tiny part of the strings, but it won't worth to separate them). I can think of two approach: - proceed one master file at a time: updating one of the master document, and unfuzzy the corresponding PO files; - apply the whole patch, and proceed one PO file at a time. In any case, it will probably need to be carefully tested, using a diff between the VCS version and the updated one (I did it recently for the developers-reference and the maint-guide: it is possible to quickly spot what are the new fuzzy string by looking for the "+#, fuzzy" pattern in the diff which can easily be updated). Maybe the second approach could be better to split the work: once the diff applied to every master documents, everyone can construct the new PO files and unfuzzy the strings with the method of his or her choice (since the Spanish is up to date, I would appreciate if you could at least take care of this one), if you have a better method than mine, don't hesitate to share it neither ;-). Anyway, I plan to propose a review on debian-l10n-english(a)l.d.o, for at least po4a-build.conf(5), so I guess the unfuzzing work could begin once this review is done, and the other parts of the patch accepted: probably in two weeks, maybe ten days if we want to make it quick (I guess it's a reasonable minimum amount of time, hopefully there will be no more translations on their way at this moment). I fully agree, and translated documentations are possible thanks to po4a, that's also why I'm interested to help and make its documentation as good as I can. Cheers David

Le 26/07/2010 04:27, Denis Barbier a écrit : Please find attach the current patch, it contains mostly style stuff like s/po/PO/ and s/docbook/DocBook/. As previously announced, it also contains also some text shrunk from po4a-build.conf(5) (remarks about how "po4a -k" were incorrect). finally, I didn't edit much things in this manual, so I may not bother debian-l10n-english(a)l.d.o, for a review. Anyway, I'm still ready to do so, because it seems to me that the use of the "content" and "support" (and particularly "includes support") everywhere make this document a bit unclear (e.g. "po4a-build includes support for adding gettext support for translation of script output messages" or "support for Perl modules containing POD content"). I'm ready to prepare a lighter version and propose it for review if you still agree (not sure if people not subscribed to po4a-devel can post to it, if not, people interested in the review process are welcome to say so in order to be CCed). This was actually my initial idea, but on a second thought, I'm pretty sure that style stuff like s/po/PO/ and s/docbook/DocBook/ would also deserve to be applied on the translated string, and I doubt it can be automatically done. I would do so if it deserves it, but I think it will be quite useless to bother separate a pair of strings just to make around 1% automatic (I think around 98% of the strings could be manually unfuzzy be me or any other volunteer before asking for translation update). Thanks for your work anyway. I just discovered, while updating the translation, the existence of msguntypot(1). It may be a better alternative to the methods described in the developer's reference [0], and could be announce there. [0] http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html... Cheers David

On 2010/7/23 Omar Campagne wrote: Hi Neil, Omar is right, po/bin/*.po files are no more updated since po4a build system has been converted to po4a-build. Could you please have a look? In particular po/bin/Makefile and share/po4a-build.make have no update-po target, that looks strange to me. Thanks Denis

On 2010/7/29 Neil Williams wrote: IIRC we discussed this issue months ago with Nekral, he was not against this move, so let us call for volunteers. (My TODO list on po4a is already too large) I believe that any CVS committer can log into alioth to get the CVS repository. This person could play with existing tools to prepare this conversion, look at Alioth docs to know what needs to be done on Alioth, and when we are ready (maybe during the next string freeze?) we make it happen. Ideally we will import only the top-level /po4a directory, and the website (po4a/html) could be moved into another place. I have no strong opinion about the SVN layout, I will just check that it is compatible with git-svn since this is surely what I will use to commit changes. Agreed, thanks for fixing that. To be honest, I do not understand why you added this dependency on intltool, Build.PL did work fine without it. BTW intltool-update does not pass the --previous flag to msgmerge, this is quite annoying. Denis